00:00 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
So today we are together with family in some sense, but part of my family and not part of my wife. 

00:08 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
So it's really yeah. 

00:10 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
So it's a really big pleasure to introduce you to each other. First of all, the people we have on today is Randy and Karen, and this is my wife, Cecilia. I'm so happy to you're finally meeting each other. 

00:22 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Yes, it's so sweet. I'm very happy too. 

00:27 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
And to put the story straight for the people listening. Then I had the pleasure of working with the passion test, which Janet Edward created together with Chris Edward and Randy and Karen has been part of the passion test family, the small crew of people that made everything work and was there, and I was as well. So we have spent multiple calls together and it has been a big pleasure. And I have yet to meet you in real life, but it feels like there has been a lot of talks between us, a lot of love, so I'm happy to have you here. Welcome. 

01:05 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
Absolutely Well. It was always such a pleasure to work with you. Yes, we're in those these recent years past and, yes, we'll have to have more than a virtual hug at some point. 

01:17 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
At some point. 

01:18 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Are we pretty close to each other? 

01:20 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
They are. 

01:20 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
What's that? Where are you? 

01:23 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
Well, you're in Mexico and we're in New Mexico. Sounds like we could get some. Oh, we're in Santa Fe and we also have some land that we're also that we're broadcasting from right now, about an hour and a quarter north of Santa Fe, in the heart of rural northern New Mexico. 

01:41 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Yeah. 

01:42 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Sounds like we have to go to that area. We have a very good friend in Santa Fe already another one more. So, yeah, we should put that needle on the map and make it happen. 

01:53 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
That would be awesome. Yes, I think you would love if you I mean you're traveling all around the world. Yeah, we are Such a cool thing because I remember when Jesper said I wanted to really do this dream, and you know, the two of you were like yep, and you made it happen with all your kids. I'm still, we are still so impressed that we're continuing on this journey. What has it been for you? 

02:24 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Five and a half now five and a half. But maybe for the people listening who don't know, then maybe we briefly should talk about the passion test, and then I would like to talk about passion as a driver, and passion as a driver to the projects you're working on today. So if one of you could take that ball and start it rolling. 

02:53 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Yeah, of course. So the passion test is actually? It's a process and it's a tool to help you get clear about what's most important in your life. And so once you get clear about what the five top passions are, the things that you're prioritizing right now, then you use it kind of as a decision making tool so that every day you're looking at those five passions and you're saying yes. So anything that is like a situation that comes up where it will support your passions, you want to say yes, and if it's something that distracts you, you want to say no. 

03:33
I know that Janet and Chris Atwood, who created this whole program and they started, I think about 15, 16 years ago and they started with the book the Passion Test, and then they decided they were going to create certification programs and they were highly successful. They started in the United States, then they went and started to travel and I got bigger and bigger and that's actually where I came in as the director of the Passion Test programs. Then I got really excited because, first of all, I was a facilitator. I went through the Passion Test certification program. I loved it because I could see the power of someone who is five years old all the way to 105 years old, that they could use this process in their life and it's energizing and exciting. And then I became as the director, then I decided to become a master trainer, and then Randy also. Well, randy, when after I became a facilitator, he was like wow, you are so different. I don't know if you remember that. 

04:41 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
In a good way. In a good way. 

04:44 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Yeah, I wasn't. Yes, because I really come out of a very wow, burned out situation as an administrator in the public education system, so I was extremely burned out. So Randy saw this big shift inside of me and then he said I want some of that. And so he became a facilitator. And then when Chris and Janet started to evolve into actually training people to become master trainers and teach the certification program, then I got involved and Randy got involved. So we're both master trainers as well and I mean I think also, randy, you had a whole lead role in doing some writing and support that way. 

05:31
So there was a lot of different things that we were all doing and the program is still like everywhere in the world. Well, mostly now with Janet Japan, china, thailand. She seems to be focusing more on the Asian countries right now, but it's so cool that still her passion clearly and I actually, after about 14 years of being with Janet, finally said it's time for me to really live my passions, because my passions have changed right, like all of our passions change Potentially. It's fine. 

06:08 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Karen. We had Janet and Chris. We have had both of them on a podcast and I will make the links to the show notes to them so people can hear them. But one fun thing Janet said was yeah, but you know what, jesper? Then sometimes it shows up that I'm not people's passion, and then they move on. And she laughed a lot and I was like you're right, janet, I moved on. But so she's out there helping people still. But where are you today? What are you working on? I've seen a lot of pictures on the social media with interest in health, but what's happening? 

06:54 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Well, I am super passionate Since the pandemic especially. I mean, I've always been interested in my health, but since the pandemic I really kind of struck a new kind of path for myself where I realized, god, I did not want to become a couch potato because I was going to the gym and doing all of that. So I started, I just asked people all around the world to join me on Zoom and work out with me, and it was very exhilarating actually to just have people, a tribe of people, because during that time everything was so isolating, so to have a community of people and I call it exercise for health. And I think after the first year I was like, ok, is everyone good, I can stop. And everyone was like, hell, no, you got to keep going, this is fantastic, I feel better than I've ever felt. And I went, oh, ok. So then I continued on and now it's been almost four years later and I continue to just feel so energized and inspired by what people are doing, at whatever age and stage of their health that they're in. 

08:18
But I'm all about cultivating whole body health, really getting people to optimal wellness and body, mind, spirit, and so I'm kind of going through the body with the exercise, the strength training, because we now know I'm sure you've heard everywhere that our muscles are kind of being depleted and they're not being worked after the I don't know about 30. You're finding that muscles are depleting, so we have to build them. So this is like a whole new thing that we've heard. But now that we're at least me in my 50s and now 60s, I'm like whoa, I really have to work on this. And it's a joy because I feel so much better and I've got Randy here who's been doing this with me since day one, so that's been awesome. 

09:17 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
The week of the pandemic shutdown, karen shifted her brilliant coaching, training, teaching skills into the whole range of holistic health and physical health for people, especially those in their late 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s that do understand their lives won't go on forever and that they want to have a quality life and they want to feel strong and vigorous and energetic for as long as they can. That is so. Yes, I did join Karen. We've been in a quick little back background. We've been a two mule team for an entire relationship which is now going on 40 years. 

10:08
Well, actually, during that time we've done a number of things, one of which was we went to graduate school, both got doctorates in organizational and educational leadership, karen's research on servant leadership and I'm saying this because these are some of the things that attracted us to the passion test family. When we encountered it, we both had become burnout on large public educational institutions. I've been working in higher ed, I've been a psychology, sociology, leadership studies professor and I'd walk around these campuses and see all these buildings and go. You know, this just isn't working. The people that are getting these educations are not, on the whole, keeping us from the brink of climate disaster and you know, and a lot of chaos around inequity and social justice and whatnot. 

10:58
Good efforts, many not phenomenal efforts. I enjoyed all my teaching years and my students, but the politics and the structures just were really not working or very dysfunctional. That's what attracted us to Janet and her work. We worked, we're ready to step outside of those large institutions and see what we can do, making contact with people all over the world in the way that Karen has already mentioned. So, yeah, she's on this track now with more than just the strength training and physical fitness, and she'll share more in a moment. 

11:31
Where I went, since I last saw you, jesper, where we were, you know, trying to, we were working together to creatively get the message out about how fantastic the programs you're involved in just were, you know, getting those to as many people as we could. I, interestingly, after a 20-year hiatus, I was asked by someone to teach at a graduate school in Santa Fe Southwestern College and I went oh my gosh, no higher ed, but this particular schools actually was founded based on the spiritual principles that I grew up from the time I was six years old that and it's called New Thought. It's one of the branches of New Thought I'm going oh my goodness higher institution of higher learning that actually has these core spiritual values. 

12:21 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Wow. 

12:22 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
Has this emphasis over emphasis on the cognitive right, and so I was very impressed, very drawn, and so, beginning of COVID, when Karen began her physical training, I began actually teaching, coaching, supporting young mental health professionals getting their master's degrees in mental health and social advocacy, so it was also an institution. It was very invested in that and now I, my, I keep Karen and I do our passion test together at the beginning of every year. We take each other through and our top five passions emerge, some that are continuous and others that can be very surprising. Well, there's one that I've put on the back burner for a couple of years now. 

13:08
I do have three publications out on on Amazon and other outlets in the world, one of which is a sequel to the passion test book that I co-authored with a clinical psychologist called the Passion Principle. But now I'm ready it's been a while and I'm really ready to write again. Have a number of things in mind, as I shared before we started this recording. We're actually sitting in the room that will. That will get its floor put in and the finish electric in this next week, and it is our writer's retreat, which you're actually welcome to come and write your book here if you'd like. 

13:43 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Oh, it sounds wonderful, but, randy, there's also a little pet project. Can we call it that? 

13:51 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Okay. 

13:52 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Yeah, oh, about some dogs. 

13:56 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
I love that. Yes, for I love that pet project. Yes, the number. Well, I'll go gosh. It was almost 10 years ago that a friend in Colorado we were across country skiing Karen was on that very trip and we had three or four dogs. They were short legged, long legged, long-haired, short-haired, and they were romping around in the snow. And my friend and I said well, you know, if those dogs could speak English to us right now, what would they be saying, you know? And out of that came this idea of we both had had a lot of exposure and used different kinds of wisdom cards. Coro is just one branch of that. 

14:32
Wisdom cards is more generic, more general, just decks of cards, each of which have images and words that trigger basically your own subconscious messages about what you are, what's going on for you and what might be the opportunities that are coming next and how you can navigate through the world. And so the cards actually are another way, other than a self-help book. But let's face it, millions of people will never pick up a self-help book, right? But I pick up a deck of cards that have cute puppies and human companions, and so using our love of animals, not using animals, but using our love of animals as a bridge to those people to engage in a playful. I know you are emphasizing play and have interviewed some very interesting people on the whole subject of learning through play. So this is my play learning with these cards, and it's all positive psychology Janet Atwood's in there. The passion test is in these cards. You know sort of my life experiences and both in and out of the classroom are in these cards through the imaginary voices of dogs and cats, the divine dogs. 

15:49 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
And really nice dogs, wonderful pictures of wonderful dogs. That helps take the message About the whole health and exercises. Then I would share a little of my own personal journey and then end up with a question. So I saw myself as a yogi because I back in 2001 had done yoga for four months kind of, and I've been on a one month retreat in India two times and but I still had to go to a one month retreat in India twice within four months. 

16:32
No, no, no, no, no, no. During those first years yeah, yeah, one of them what would you do? But my yoga was like an on and off practice, where it was more off than on, if we are honest. And then the children came, and we got more and more children and I just kept up making excuses. Then one day I took my bike, rode into the yoga Shala and the trainer he said to me he said, well, you're strong enough, but your problem is your stamina. You're not showing up for yourself. And I got so annoyed that I never returned. But I also got so annoyed that I've been thankful in my heart for how annoying he was. To be right that I said to him I will show that prick, I will show him that I can stand up for myself. And so what I did was I started on a. 

17:32
Really, if I look back, it's really stupid. So for 12 years I've been running one kilometer every day. For 12 years, not more, just one kilometer. And it's actually a lot to take on the running gear just for one kilometer. And in the start it was I could go to bed. I was like, oh, I forgot it. Then I put on the gear and I believe I've forgotten it twice. Then I ran to the next day and that's the exercise to show myself. I could make an agreement with myself and keep it. Then I slowly, by having a daily practice I'm so, I'm so started to put on more exercises. 

18:19
Then, I think three years ago, we were together with my young cousin only 25, you know and he did yoga every morning and I just looked at his body and I was like, ah, man, he can do this, he can do that. And I looked at myself and just got more and more chubby. Then I started my yoga again, and so now for two years I've been doing an early morning exercise with my yoga, but also days where I hadn't Then come. Last summer I suddenly decided I wanted to become 120. I have had that number in my youth, but I was like, why not see how long I can live and how good I can live? And I read some articles from an American called Brian Johnson, who is this very measured billionaire who is doing everything to see if he can reverse his age. 

19:22
He's over the top. But he said a sentence that stopped with me, which is kind of a rewriting of Hippocrates or whatever he's called If someone asks you to heal them. Start by asking them to stop what is hurting them. But this Brian, what he said was that he had started firing his evening. Brian, meaning when he woke up in the morning, he was good at taking decisions, he knew what he wanted. He was like, yeah, today we'll do this, this and this. 

20:01
But when it became 7 pm, a half a bottle of red wine sounded good, half a bag of chips sounded good, maybe some candy and some ice cream sounded good. And he didn't have the backbone to fight against the evening version of himself. And I was like, okay, and I looked at my own life and I could see that my evening Jesper was very similar, didn't have any backbone at all. So I fired him and started the intermediate fasting and Cecilia and I have been doing that now for around half a year and to see what that has changed, I've lost 26 pounds and I've started upping my exercises also. 

20:46 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
That's for the record. We're a power couple, but we don't do the same thing. 

20:50 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
We don't do the same thing. But the interesting thing I would like us to see if we can unwrap together is why is it so difficult to make the choice? If you look at me and that's what I tell my whole story is it has taken me like 12 years to come to a place where I'm like okay, I will actually not accept that. If I continue down this road, in 20 years I won't be able to rise from a sofa. I will be too overweight, I will be drinking too much, I will be unhealthy. Why is it so difficult to take that decision and do something about it? What have you met? And also with your clients, how are you working with this? 

21:43 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Well, I think the biggest thing is actually commitment. Okay, so first it's making the commitment to oneself. And I think, in at least culturally, here in the United States and I think most everywhere globally, there is this idea that we have to serve and be of use to everyone else. And we've kind of put ourselves on the back burner, especially if your parents, I think there's a idea that we're always wanting to support everyone else. So your commitment to yourself is really your commitment to everyone else, the family. 

22:28
And then, at some point, I think, you wake up. I don't know. You know if you're at 50, I don't know if it's 40, it's like different for each person, 60 for some, 70 for others. You wake up and you go holy crap, I'm not going to be here forever. So how? What's the quality of my life? How do I want it to be? And I think more people are waking up now, recognizing that they're not getting the results that they want by sitting around. They're not getting the results by doing a half baked, you know, going to. I mean, I was going to the gym and I got some results, but I plateaued, probably years ago because I wasn't pushing myself. So I think it's commitment. And then I think it's consistency. And so what you just said, jesper, is that you started to do it every day, you develop. The backbone to me, that's commitment, and then that's your being consistent, and it's those two things that then, when you practice you're doing your consistent practice of, let's say, strength training or yoga in your case, or walking, or intermittent fasting, whatever it is will make a definite positive. I mean you'll feel better. 

23:47
You know hormones are changing every decade, men and women. You know how we are. Whatever eating is changing. You know what we used to eat and the portions that we used to eat might be different today or might not, but there's lots of potential for change. And we act or at least I know I have acted like I'm still 30 and I can eat a certain way. I mean I. 

24:14
One of the things Randy was saying is that I got into this nutritional piece because in my late 50s I found I was strength training, building muscle, but I was also gaining fat because of how I ate and I couldn't figure out why I was gaining this weight. And so you know, and I've done a lot of different programs which I'd worked in my 30s, had worked in my 40s, but in my 50s it wasn't, and I couldn't seem to get back on track. And what was weird is I kept going back to these old ways. So the the big thing for people, I think yes, for is, change is hard here, you know, we, my God, I got to change something and it's like it just is hard for humans, I think, to say I'm going to change something. 

25:14 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
And you talked about motivation or you were going there. Yes, but what? What is it that motivates? I think we have to look at our the way that we're raised, to begin with in a reward and punishment society, primarily punishment society. 

25:30
Across institutions and so on the individual level, I can say there's a truth for myself to do. I want to punish myself to change or reward myself to change. So the reason that New Year's resolutions flag out and usually don't work for people, at least beyond the first few weeks, because they're based on self punishing. People go you know, I can't and self denial, I can't do this and I can't do that, and I've got to stop that. And it's not very rewarding. The punishment doesn't feel good. So how do you replace that with what feels good? Okay, and this goes back to you know the our questions around the passion test. You know what feels best, what feels better? What feels better is to feel more energetic at 7pm Than you know just slouching in the couch and eating junk food. What feels better is knowing that if I don't do that, I'll wake up in the morning, I'll get better night sleep. That always feels great to get a better night sleep. 

26:32
And motivation is about how do you reprogram to be constantly rewarding yourself, and for some of us it literally is looking in the mirror, going Wow, you know, I, my body has changed in my and so my, and sometimes it's hard for people's body image to catch up with the actual reflection in the mirror, because I'm not good enough, I'm still fat, whatever, even though their body is changing. 

26:58
So it's about coming into alignment with that new feeling and body image as well, to be able to keep progressing. What Karen does so beautifully with people as they come into this program at different stages and stages and places, is that she encourages people to start where they are Right, which means she might demonstrate an exercise, but she goes, and if that's too hard, do it this way. If that's not difficult enough, do it this way so they can really get into that place and bite. And if and when they continue for many weeks, many months, then they can actually do. The one that she's demonstrated is a little more, a little more difficult. So it's incremental change and constant reward and self reward and a realignment of self image. 

27:51 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
I think people feel better. You know, like I know, especially when we were all isolated in our little bubbles for years ago, I remember just feeling so much better physically when I would do strength training. Mentally I would be like, oh, like I just. You know the endorphins, you know there's just different good vibe. You know hormones being pumped in a way that I could manage. And I had a community. And I'm telling you community I don't want to discount community because I think having a group of people who are showing up and then it makes you want to show up is wonderful. I mean, when you get 20 people, 2518, whatever numbers, 12, I mean it goes all over the place. It's based on the week, but I have a core group of people who have been showing up for four years. 

28:55 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
And we're seeing each changes in each other as well as ourselves, and I think this is another place where it takes a village applies. 

29:03 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Yeah, I remember, you know I have on my zoom. I can look at what people are doing, because I can't really see when I'm actually showing the exercises, but I'll look afterwards. And I remember I saw one a couple of people in particular who are using very light weights and I remember I texted them and I said, okay, it's been two years, it's time you now got it. You have to push it up and really bring it up to a whole nother level for yourself, and that I think is key also is that when you're in community and you have someone who's willing to coach you or facilitate a process which is what I feel like I'm doing it has made a big difference. 

29:48
So now I have, you know, this person who's like gosh, I feel so much better now using these heavier weights and he can feel different. And his muscles, you know, and he was kind of the skinny guy and now he's, you know, getting more bulk, and not that he needs to be all bulked out, that's not what he's all about, but it's, you know, very different. And he said I wouldn't have done it without you and I haven't. You know, I have other people like this, like lots of people like this. You have to look and go. All right, let's you know you can do it. And I do one on one coaching with people with strength training and we'll write out programs for folks and I love that and I also love the group, because I don't know there's something about that community that is just I get excited and you know. 

30:41
I know Randy talked about motivation and I have to say that, knowing that there's a group, you're, you're more likely to show up, right, if it was just me and Randy, randy and I. But if there's, you know, as we have heard, that more and more people come together, you're more likely to jump in and go. Okay, there's something here I want to. I want to know, I want to be a part of it. Right, I want to be part of the tribe and feel better, look better, and so much of it is in the head. It's, you know, I think it starts here saying I can't. I mean, I say this all the time to people yes, I can, yes, I can. 

31:26 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Karen, can we talk about a little about being in the head and the body. One of the things Cecilia and I talked about actually this morning was that how it can be difficult to go down into the body sometimes, Because when you get present in the body you sometimes feel some of the stuff that you have to neglect it while being in the head. So how do you work with that? What do you think about that? 

32:05 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Well, I think it's very true what you said, that there is a real separation between the head and the body. And, again, I think that's kind of a systemic way in which, in many cultures, we have been taught that we're better if we're thinking and not so much feeling. I mean, there's just a lot of pressure to be intellectual, to be able to respond in a smart, smart, you know. And so what we're doing a lot of that time is we're suppressing how we feel, our feelings and so and our feelings can be scary. So, cecilia, I you know, feelings are scary. I assume you and Jesper are doing, you know you're each of your own work and I want to hear, cecilia, what you're doing as well. 

33:01 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
I haven't talked much in this podcast. It's very strange. I'm not actually battling on. But you know, change is nice, I don't have to talk all the time. What I was saying this morning was just, he's very stubborn and sweet, but really we're not the same person. My husband is very stubborn and sometimes a little narrow minded. He will drink the same tea and it has to be that tea and it has to be every day, and it has to be at that time and it has to be that tea. And if I can't have that tea, I'm not having tea and it's like okay, come on. I mean it could just take the tea. 

33:46 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
It's the same tea. 

33:48 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
So, a little bit like that, he would import tea from Africa at some point because our tea shop and Copenhagen started stopped having it. And in the same way, he's doing his daily one kilometer, no matter what. He could have pneumonia, and it could be two degrees outside and raining, and it could just do it anyway. And maybe you know, look at the realities here, or I need you. Goddamn, the house is burning. No, I'm running. It's a little bit like that. And all on to the initiative. It's great, my husband feels good and he's going to last longer and I find it amazing and impressive. 

34:30
I just have to. You know, I'm not him. That's not how I don't function like that. I can't be stubborn like that. I can't be doing the same thing always, no matter what, like that. It doesn't work for me and I it wouldn't work for me to try to copy my husband. So that's one thing, and I do, I do take care of myself, I do my running, I do my yoga, do my long walks and and I mean I was way ahead of you when we first met on the healthy foods thing and had to pull back in order to have a relationship because he didn't get it, and it was, it was it was where we had to fight a lot over what was actually food or not. 

35:16
So I mean, it's not like I'm not doing anything, it's just I can't do that stubborn thing. And sometimes I wake up and I'm like I can't do it today. And I clearly have and here comes the body mind problem. I clearly have a window and at some point of the day it closes and I just can't do it. I can't hold my. Can I say shit on my own podcast? I can't hold my shit together. It's as if going into the yoga flow, going deep into the body, being present with that, would freak me out. I can't do it. I can do it in the morning and at some point I just reached a point where I can't do it and we could talk about that for maybe 80 hours. I'm a psychologist too. I know what could be, but you know what? I could also just face it and get the yoga done before that window closes and then we can move on. 

36:10
And there are other things to do in my life and I mean it's relevant. We have four children. Only one is an adult and moved out, and they are on school there at home. They need someone to be around them. I do the cooking, I do a lot of things, and so if I get the yoga done in the morning, it's great, and if I miss it, I miss it and I forgive myself, it's okay. So, yeah, that was the mind body conversation we had Somehow the physical just facing the fact that I do feel it as well I'm not 17 anymore and facing the music of what's going on when I do my yoga is sometimes, if it's three o'clock in the afternoon, I simply do not have the mental strength for it. I can go for a run, then I can do that, and then I do that instead. 

37:04 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
So yeah. 

37:04 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
I shared something now. 

37:06 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Yeah, so, cecilia, but that's interesting. You said for to do yoga, that was mental strength. 

37:14 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Yeah, yeah, but all of it is mental, it's all in the mind, but somehow if I put in my earputs or run with a friend, I can run. I can run anytime of the day, and it's just to get out there and start running and then I can run until I cannot run anymore. And in these years it's a little bit pathetic, but I can do it. And then I've done some work out. But with the yoga I do half yoga exercise and it's as if something inside implodes and I just need my morning energy for it. 

37:45 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Nice. Well, it's good to know yourself. 

37:49 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Yeah, we shouldn't turn this into a recession. I mean we could, but then I think we should stop the podcast recording. Right, right, right, no, I actually like that. 

37:58 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
You know, you know what works for you and what doesn't. 

38:01
So that's clear. I think the other thing you mentioned is. So here's how I see exercise. 

38:11
There's there's like what I would call active stretching, which might be more yoga. There's also in yoga there's a way to build lean muscle and I've, you know, because I've seen some amazingly pretty lean, strong people who do yoga. It's different than what I would call resistance training, which is actually building muscle because we're losing our muscle mass. And then there's the running and there's the what I would call the cardio, the higher intensity. So there's like active stretching or active recovery, yoga, kind of walking the beach, you know, gentle, maybe gentle, bicycling, any of that. That's all movement. Then there's the cardio, which is higher intensity, which is running fast, maybe hot, you know, going fast, going slow, whatever it is that you're doing, or fast bicycling, any of those things and all of these pieces are needed in in our life, plus the resistance training. And then what you mentioned also is the food piece, which is where I was, I think, very limited in my understanding. I thought I was eating well and I did eat well, but I was eating a lot more processed food than I realized. 

39:38
And that was kind of a wake up call and I also had resisted. Okay. So notice, I was like in this resistance mode of learning about macros. Macros are, you know, proteins, fats, fiber and carbs and I did not want to learn about this, but I knew that I needed to because I could not, I was not getting results, and that was the thing is, you couldn't sustain your sustain your physical, I could not Without going there. 

40:10
Yeah. So it was kind of like, if I want to be outdoors, if I want to be able to do all the things I love, I have to get my food act together. And so I did this six week training with this coach, and it's called the faster way to fat loss, and this woman was amazing, and I kind of saw in those six weeks I was like, wow, they're. And it kind of integrates so many things intermittent fasting, hydration, resistance training, the strength training, the stretching and the yoga and you know, the mental piece of self, positive self talk and the recipes and everything. And I was like and then it in this little app, which is like a magnificent app, it's so powerful you. It creates for each person your macros for the day, and so the ratio, the ratio or percentage of how many grams you're going to eat of each item. And it was like a true game changer for me, because all of a sudden, I'm paying attention to the stuff that I said I would never do, and I actually. 

41:23
It took, though, months for me to really understand it. You know so I, but I needed a structure. So I also know, for me what I need is structure. So if I'm going to do something. I need someone to hold my hand, someone to walk me through the thing. I need to do it over and over and over again until I go. 

41:46
Oh, and by about the third month or so, I remember people were like what are you doing, karen? You look different. And I was like, oh, I, because I had no idea that I would look different. I just knew that I was eating differently, and so what was remarkable to me is that I lost like 21 pounds over the last year. I went down on two and a half to three pants sizes, which was shocking to me because, again, this wasn't my goal. My goal was to be able to just go outdoors and be able to do the things I want to do. I wasn't feeling as good in my clothes, I wasn't feeling as good overall, and it has been dramatic for me. I mean, my energy is so much better and you still gain muscle mass. 

42:36
I totally, and I and this is another thing is like in a lot of programs, thank you is that people will lose weight, but they're actually losing muscle and there's visceral fat, is the fat that's in our organs. And so I did this for over a year and and before that year was up, I went you know what? I'm going to become a trainer in this program. So I pushed myself to learn and you know they had all beautifully set up. It was like a year and a half ago that I did this and I finally got myself. I got through the certification. I was really pleased and then I started these community six week community circles and I have found that, even teaching it now I have also become. You know, as we are the trainers, we're also having to do the work ourselves, right? 

43:33 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
so yeah. 

43:34 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Yeah. So I think that piece has been so powerful for me because this was really where I had all my resistance. So when people are talking to me about their resistance, I'm like, oh yeah. 

43:49 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
We all have it. Yeah, and we have to work with it head first. But I, for me, one of my things is I get over ambitious. So my first step of working with my resistance is to be kind to myself instead of being hard to myself. Yeah, but it is powerful to find the corners where we can really learn something new and add to what we already doing. And sometimes it's very easy to find them because it's everywhere we don't want to look. If you look around and you see, when do I blink? That's where it is. Yeah. 

44:34 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
I think the key to a lot of what Karen has been committed to in these last few years is to stay out of rats and finding these structures where you're doing different exercises every day for all parts of your body and you are eating differently every day based on what your body needs that day. So you're constantly changing and you're staying out of a rat and that's what I'm doing. I'm the great beneficiary of Karen's persistence with changing up the exercise routine, because I was in a rut at the gym too, with changing up the food, and this program she's in now. It's an amazing array of good, healthy recipes, different kinds of ingredients, different real food, and so, even though I'm not calibrating like she is, I'm getting this residual benefit from people to eat with her, not alone, yeah that makes sense. 

45:43 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
And I mean just looking at you. Compared to the last meeting we were on three or four years ago, all of us look better, I believe I think so. 

45:55 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
I agree, I think she looks beautiful, so whatever. 

46:00 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
You don't know how I looked three years ago. 

46:09 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
To not keep the podcast too long. We should find a good place to leave it and give people some advices. My first thought around this is there's so much knowledge that I didn't know I missed about. I mean, we are even from supplements to how do you exercise in a good way, because I grew up with a system of, yeah, you just run and then you do some push-up, then all is good and you eat whatever is on the plate kind of world view. 

46:44 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Make sure you get your carbs. 

46:45 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Yeah, make sure you eat your carbs and drink half a liter of milk every day, then food life is good. So it is. I hope all this we are talking about and each of us are exploring in our own way will end up as common knowledge at some point. But where would you a really good advice for people who want to start start a commitment with themselves? What would that be? 

47:17 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
I think, first, you just have to save yourself. Progress over perfection. Yeah Right, you got to take a step and whatever that thing is that you really want to do, move towards it, take some action. And it's not about doing it perfectly, because if it was, we would all, nobody would touch anything. So we have to let go of the perfection piece and just say I'm going to try this and I'm going to keep trying this, and I'm going to keep trying this and see what happens. And see what happens right, and enjoy, enjoy it. And there will be days where you don't enjoy it and so maybe, like Cecilia or like myself, if I really don't have the energy, then I might not do something that day, you're still a brain. 

48:10
You're like it's okay, you know you're good, you got this, because, guess what, tomorrow's a new day, you get to jump in again and whoa, let's do it. 

48:20 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
And rest is critical. 

48:21 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Yeah, all of that. So I think, just progress over perfection, I would say, you know, really, get clear about what's the thing that you want to move towards. You know, like quality of life is a big topic, so is it in the body, is it? You know, like you can't, you know like if you can't get up from the floor, that's an issue I would really pay attention to. If you are, you know, got a big old belly and you realize that's getting in your way, then that's something to look at right and not in a negative way. But more, as you know, you can change us. I mean, we see, like you said, yes, for so many people at all ages 96, 70, you know, changing their entire life with different lifestyle choices. So it's the lifestyle choice, progress over perfection. Take an action in some area. 

49:28
I really believe that resistance training, strength training, is so important. You know it doesn't have to be like you're bulking up, and most women, you know, will never bulk up unless they've been doing this and have real, you know, like a massive process of doing a program to the nth degree. Most of us don't. You can feel stronger, and I think women are really the leaders in this, honestly, and the men are following. And I think it's so cool that you know for you, jesper, it's the yoga and Cecilia, for you it's the running. Just, you know, just notice, like for me, find a balance for yourself of whatever that whole foods, nutritious eating, is for you. I had, you know, this six week thing that I do faster way program was a real eye opener. And you know, there's no gluten, there's no dairy, and but you get to eat what you want. It's not like because it won't be sustainable, like if you never, if I never got to eat another piece of chocolate, I would be. 

50:41 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Oh yes. 

50:42 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
I'd be so sad. So that's not part of the game. So whatever you're doing also has to be sustainable. Yeah, yeah, thanks people. 

50:51 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Yeah. 

50:54 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Karen and Randy. It has been such a big pleasure. It could be really wonderful if you wanted to share where people can get a hold of you, where they can find the wisdom card. So if you can block yourself a little. 

51:08 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
Oh right, well, we've talked about the dogs and cats earlier. The divine dog wisdom deck, cards and guidebook is available on Amazon currently, and as is the cosmic cat wisdom deck and guidebook and the passion principle how to live your most passion life that's also on Amazon. My name is Randy Kretcher. I have an author's page. You want to learn a little bit more about me before you take a deeper dive and see if any one of those publications might meet your needs for getting support and moving on with your life and Karen. 

51:53 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Well, I you know I got a lot of things going on, but I'll just say if you go to Dr D R Karen Lubin, K a R I N LubinL? U B I N Dot com. Dr Karen Lubin dot com, You'll see exercise and you can scroll down and look for all the many things that I'm doing with the faster way, with the circle of exercise for health, which is all live on zoom. I do recordings. There's recordings area that people can see and look at. I do all kinds of other things, but I'll just leave it at that. You can just look at the website and see what I do. It's all about self discovery. 

52:37 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Links in the show notes so you don't have to scroll back and note down the billing and whatever is that let's make it easy. 

52:46 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
We will make it easy for you. 

52:48 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Perfect. 

52:48 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
Thank you. 

52:49 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Thanks a lot for your time. It was a big pleasure. 

52:52 - Randy Crutcher (Guest)
Wonderful to meet you. 

52:53 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Cecilia Likewise, likewise. I hope we do it again. 

52:57 - Dr. Karin Lubin (Guest)
I love it. 

52:59 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Thank you.